Lays chips, E631 and Pig fat Mystery Solved
SANHA certificate provided by LAYS Officials
[Update: Food info has updated the information about E631 by adding information and certificates from Lays officials]
Regarding my previous post on the topic I had a conversation with Lays official and they provided some proofs that in any way Lays are not HARAAM. Without adding any comment myself I am going to post the whole conversation in Question answer manner so that one can understand it better. I will not repeat the previously written info but for your ease I would like to mention that about E631 code web provides the info that it can be of animal origin and somewhere it is written that it can be of both plant or animal origin. The lays official said that they are getting the supply of this E631 from IFF Thailand , which obtains it from a plant called Cassava that yields tapioca starch. Now my questions and Lays Pakistan’s answer for your review.
- E627 and E631 salts are originated from ANIMALS as everywhere on web. Can you justify its plant origin?
- E627 and E631 is not necessarily originated from animals, there are a lot of references available on the internet, books etc. As you know that we are getting Masala flavour from IFF and E631 is one ingredient of that flavour, IFF is buying this ingredient from Ajinomoto Ltd.
- Please visit Ajinomoto’s website (for reference see attached ppt).
- Also see book reference
- IFANCA (largest halal certifying body) website and Sodium Inosinate (E631) is not included in Haram or doubtful list.
- Indian website, see E631 suitability for vegetarians as it can be obtained from plant source
- On web the mentioned CASSAVA plant, is a thickening agent not a flavor enhancer? Cassava, also called manioc, mandioc or yuka, is an edible tropical plant that yields tuberous roots from which cassava flour, tapioca (laundry starch), or even an alcoholic beverage can be derived.
- Tapioca Tapioca is a flavorless, colorless, odorless starch extracted from the root of the plant species Manihot esculenta (cassava).
- Tapioca starch if being used itself, then it would perform function as thickening agent, basically its being widely used as replacement of expensive starches e.g. corn, potato starch etc in different products. However if we talk about Ajinomoto ltd. they are biotechnological converting Tapioca starch into different products like E631. I can further send you details and process flows if you required.
- It has been on a site that E631 and E627 are problem Additives. Some additives have specific effects to watch out for – such as ribonucleotides (E627, E631, E635) which tend to cause rashes (”ribo rash”), or aspartame (E951) which tends to have MSG-like effects and cause depression.
- Ribonucleotide never means Rashes or anything cause rashes, Ribo is a sugar part of Ribonucleotide which gives energy only, please consult any chemistry/biochemistry fundamental book. Its never banned in any part of the world, however many non government authorities has advised to reduce its usage, like many websites would advise you to reduce sugar and common salt intake. Hence E631 is approved in every food law all over the world like common salt and sugar. (by the way, we are merely adding below 0.00% — means its already below two decimals — nothing harmful).
- Daily Ummat has been publishing this story whole week. Are you suing them?
- We can’t stop any one to write against us, however people should contact us for clarification if required.
Attached also find comments from SANHA (a well reputed Halal certification body) about our products and current issue of hoax emails, you can contact them to get further details.
SANHA Certificate
If you still have questions, please write to Lays Pakistan at pak.customerservice@intl.pepsico.com instead of being affected by rumors.
PCSIR ( Pakistan Council of Scientific and Industrial Research ) Labs. Complex, Lahore has analyzed only the fat contents of extracted from the Lays chips and the results showed that it was not of animal origin.
PCSIR has given only the statement about source of fat used for frying and nothing else. They have not worked on E631. Lays chips is not included in the list of 20 mandatory items of food published by PSQCA.
From all above statements it has been proved that Lays Pakistan is using Halal Sodium inosinate obtained from Plant cassava. It is also an ingredient approved by Ajinomoto international.
[...] Also read: E631 in Lays Chips II [...]
Hi,
Nice article. The information could be trusted. Y they are not in the list of PSQCA? and PCSIR should also inspect E631.
[...] Visit original post on Pakfactor.com. Published in: [...]
PEPSICO and IFF are fraud
IFF has been involved in such cases in past
IFF fined €12m in popcorn flavour case
http://www.foodnavigator.com/Financial-Industry/IFF-fined-12m-in-popcorn-flavour-case
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Flavors_and_Fragrances
How you can trust IFF or PEPSICO
http://blog.yasirmturk.com/page/Part-1-Lays-contains-pig-fats-says-Daily-Ummat.aspx
Hi Yacir,
Ummat has been famous for such kind of stories. You can contact on the email given in the post to know the truth or certificates from lays officials. Fritoley is not not producing lays in Pakistan it is Pepsi Cola.
Also check this out
and here to find lays certificates.
My dear brother and sister,
I have an important information regarding 100% HALAL authentication of LAYS Chips
Please visit given below link which stated that
E631 : Sodium inosinate
Regarding the issue of E631 in Lays products in Pakistan we would like to refer to the Lays Pakistan Statement and the certification of Halal of Lays products. The inosinate is made from tapioca starch and no animal products are involved in the production.
Link is
http://www.food-info.net/uk/e/e631.htm
So my dear brothers and sisters LAYS in Pakistan is 100% HALAL and approved by international Food info
My Dear Brother and sitters i also strongly recommend to read given below email from Dr. Ralf’s proving that E631 is commercially being produced from plants and Dr. Amjad’s email is grossly incorrect
Subject: RE: [Fwd: RE: Questions to Food-Info]
From: “Hartemink, Ralf”
Date: Tue, May 19, 2009 1:42 pm
To: questions@food-info.net
mainmanan@hotmail.com
————————————————————————
–
Dear Abdul,
I received this mail from my colleague.
Well, it is a very strange and absolutely false e-mail. It is a classical case on how you can misuse some facts to scare people.
It is true that worldwide a lot of pigs are being held and these are obviously not halal. The same for any other meat slaughtered in a non-Islamic fashion. But then it starts about a conspiracy on the use of pig fat. And that is not correct.
If pig fat is used as an ingredient it has to be labelled in most countries (at least in Western countries, I don’t know about all
countries) as animal fat or pig fat. There is no cover-up for that.
It is also true that fats, including possibly animal fat, can be used to produce some additives, mainly the emulsifiers, as well as cosmetics.
Many soaps are derived from fat, which may include animal fat.
The E-numbers as such are not a European idea, the numbering system is a UN-based list of all additives that may be used in human and animal food. This is done by the WHO/FAO. In the EU the laws are more strict and not all numbers on the list are approved. Only those that are approved for use in the EU get an E before the number. Australia, Canada, India and more countries use the same numbers, but, of course, without an E. The number simply is a shorter name for the often very complex chemical names of the additives. It has nothing to do with a cover-up or similar.
The companies do not even have to mention the number, they can also use the name, or the combination of name and number. But either the name or the number has to be mentioned. As all numbers are clearly defined, it is also clear what additive is actually used.
The number of additives that contain fat is very limited, and many of the list below do not. E 100, 110, 120, 140, 141 and 153 are food colours. E100 is the yellow colour from turmeric, or the yellow colour of curries. Obviously no fat is used there. E110 is a completely synthetic yellow colour made from petroleum-derivates. No natural components or fat are being used. E120 is haram, but because it is made of insects, it has nothing to do with fat. E140 and E141 are the green colour of leaves and is made from grass. It does not exist in animals and obviously has nothing to do with it. E153 is normally made from burned plants, but in some countries animal material may still be used.
E210-E219 are all benzoates. These are made synthetically and no animal fats are being used. They are also present in berries. All have the same origin, so it is quite strange that some numbers are not in the list and some are !
E234 is an antibiotic produced in cheese by a micro-organism. It has nothing to do with animals.
E252 (and also E251) are nitrates, normal minerals and not derived from any living organism.
E270 is an acid made by bacteria from sugar, 325-7 are salts from the same acid. No animal material involved. The same for E280.
E334-337 are made from by products in the wine production. They may thus be haram for that, but have nothing to do with animals or pigs.
For the E400 and 500-series, see http://www.food-info.net/uk/qa/qa-fi45.htm for the specific on these.
The E631 (and actually that should be the E626-635 as they can all have the same origin) can be made from meant, although this is not commonly done, as it is too expensive.
E904 is made of insects and thus indeed haram, but has nothing to do with animals.
So the list mentioned is absolutely incorrect and some numers are missing, whereas some are absolutely wrongly on the list (sucha s the lactates).
A completely different discussion is actually whether additives derived from pig fat, but in which the pig origin is not detectable, is actually indeed haram. This is not my speciality, but we have had a longtime discussion with some imams and islamic scientists that had quite different opinions. What we do is provide facts, where does it come from and how can you know 9or not) and leave the actual use to the individual consumer based on his/her beliefs.
I hope this clarifies the situation for you and it would be nice if you could also spread this message in Pakistan, so people can get a better and true view on additives and which may be haram. So far all food scientists in Islamic countries that we have consulted, agree with the list at http://www.food-info.net/uk/qa/qa-fi45.htm.
Kind regards,
Ralf Hartemink
Dr. ir. Ralf Hartemink
http://www.blt.wur.nl; http://www.mft.wur.nl; http://www.food-info.net; Programme Director Food Technology and Food Safety Wageningen University Dept. Food Microbiology PO Box 8129 6700 EV Wageningen the Netherlands
+31-317-483558
fax : +31-317-484978
ralf.hartemink@wur.nl
————————————————————————
–
Dear Sir/Madam,
i thank you for your reply,
could you please reply after reading this email.
Here is the most pertinent part in case you are in a hurry:
So, I request all MUSLIMS or non pork [meat] eaters to check the ingredients of the ITEMS of daily use and match it with the following list of E-CODES. If any of the ingredients listed below is found, try to avoid it, as it has got PIG FAT; E100, E110, E120, E 140, E141, E153, E210, E213, E214, E216, E234, E252,E270, E280, E325, E326, E327, E334, E335, E336, E337, E422, E430, E431, E432, E433, E434, E435, E436, E440, E470, E471, E472, E473, E474, E475,E476, E477, E478, E481, E482, E483, E491, E492, E493, E494, E495, E542,E570, E572, E631, E635, E904.
The full email is below:
FW: Why Pig Fat is not mentioned but code(s) are printed?? read In nearly all the western countries including Europe, the PRIMARY choice for meat is PIG. There are a lot of farms in these countries to breed this animal. In France alone, Pig Farms account for more than 42,000.
PIGS have the highest quantity of FAT in their body than any other animal.
But Europeans and Americans try to avoid fats.
Thus, where does the FAT from these PIGS go? All pigs are cut in slaughter houses under the control of the department of food and it was the headache of the department of food to dispose of the fat removed from these pigs.
Formerly, it was burnt (about 60 years ago). Then they thought of utilizing it. First, they experimented it in the making of SOAPS and it worked.
Then, a full network was formed and this FAT was chemically Processed, Packed and Marketed, while the other manufacturing companies bought it.
In the meantime, all European States made it a rule that every Food, Medical and Personal Hygiene product should have the ingredients listed on its cover. So, this ingredient was listed as PIG FAT.
Those who are living in Europe for the past 40 years know about this.
But, these products came under a ban by the ISLAMIC COUNTRIES at that time, which resulted in a trade deficit.
Going back in time, if you are somehow related to South East Asia, you might know about the provoking factors of the 1857 CIVIL WAR. At that time, Rifle Bullets were made in Europe and transported to the sub-continent through the Sea.It took months to reach there and the gun powder in it was ruined due to the exposure to sea.
Then, they got the idea of coating the Bullets with fat, which was PIG FAT. The fat layer had to be scratched by teeth before using them. When the word spread, the soldiers, mostly Muslim and some Vegetarians, refused to fight.Which eventually lead to the Civil War. The Europeans recognized these facts, and instead of writing PIG FAT, they started writing ANIMAL FAT.All those living in Europe since 1970?s know this fact. When the companies were asked by authorities from the MUSLIM COUNTRIES, what animal fat is it, they were told it was COW and SHEEP Fat. Here again a question raised, if it was COW or SHEEP Fat, still it is HARAAM to MUSLIMS, as these animal were not SLAUGHTERED as per the ISLAMIC LAW. Thus, they were again banned.
Now, these multinational companies were again facing a severe drought of money as 75% of their income comes from selling their goods to Muslim Countries, and these earn BILLIONS OF DOLLARS of Profit from their exports to the MUSLIM WORLD.
Finally they decided to start a coding language, so that only their Departments of Food Administration should know what they are using, and the common man is left lurking in the dark.Thus, they started E-CODES.
These E- INGREDIENTS are present in a majority of products of multinational firms including, but not limited to – TOOTH PASTE, SHAVING CREAM CHEWING GUM, CHOCOLATE, SWEETS, BISCUITS, CORN FLAKES, TOFFEES, CANNED FOODS, FRUIT TINS, Some medication Multi-vitamins Since these goods are being used in all MUSLIM Countries indiscrimately, our society is facing problems like shamelessness, rudeness and sexual promiscuity.
So, I request all MUSLIMS or non pork [meat] eaters to check the ingredients of the ITEMS of daily use and match it with the following list of E-CODES. If any of the ingredients listed below is found, try to avoid it, as it has got PIG FAT; E100, E110, E120, E 140, E141, E153, E210, E213, E214, E216, E234, E252,E270, E280, E325, E326, E327, E334, E335, E336, E337, E422, E430, E431, E432, E433, E434, E435, E436, E440, E470, E471, E472, E473, E474, E475,E476, E477, E478, E481, E482, E483, E491, E492, E493, E494, E495, E542,E570, E572, E631, E635, E904.
Now dears it is proved that LAYS IN PAKISTAN IS 100 % HALAL
Regards,
Muhammad Umar Shafique
@yacir
Please give us a break now. We ask Lays to provide proofs and when they come with some thing sesible, we don’t agree. Please be reasonable.
@Umer’s note is very important. Dr. Amjad is nothing but a fake personality. SANHA advised me that they are searching him since last seven years. If any one has his contact details, please upload immedietly.
I have also contacted my friends in UK, they are saying that this email was roaming in 2004-5 in UK and finally concluded that its rubbish.
I would request everybody to not believe such emails, such publications, its always better to verify before amplify.
regards
It is a very interesting debate that is going on… hoewever I would like to add in my bit which is quite shocking as well as confusing as well.
An interesting that PEPSI CO. Pakistan has done in case of Lay’s since this controversy arose is that they have removed all the food codes (E-names) from their packs. I did a survey in some of the stores in Lahore as well as Karachi and found out that the new batches of Lay’s packs contain only the first line of ingredients (which have things like Potatoes, Oil etc) but not the codes udner discussion. I compared the older packs with these newer ones and observed that the whole list of items were removed except the frist line. I would invite all of you as well to go to your nearest store and find out for yourselves.
Being a very regular consumer of Lay’s (my favourites being Ketup Tango and French Cheese)… my concern is that if PepsiCo. is using all the halal stuff and using Juanid Jamshed as the newest person to convince people in their ads… then why did they remove the list of ingredeints from them? Isnt it necessary that one has to show each adn every ingredeint on the pack??
Hi,
nice to hear that you are also following Lays. Can you send us the images of packs you have new and old ones?
Regards.
Pak factor
I never took the images dring my visits as I was doing it just for personal information and inquisition… however, I will try to get hold of some packs and take the snaps. In the meanwhile, you guys can also visit any of the stores nearby you and find this fact by yourself as well.
Well I had also searched for packs and find only three ingredients on it, vegetable oil, potatoes and flavor.
Exactly… now what you have gotten hold of are the newer packs. You should know that the whole issue is about the E627 and E631… which used to be mentioned on the older packs but ever since this issue… they have been removed from the shelves altogether.
I will post the pictures of the said packs as soon as I get hold of them.
Hi,
well I got a pack of French Cheese flavor and it had E621 and E627 code printed on it. Mfg date 11/05/09.
Great! Now you know that the oldder packs have these codes on them… Now go to any store and get hold of a packet…and note that the codes arent there!
I have some of the pics… but tell me how I can upload here or should I email them to you?
You can email the pictures at heenasafdar@pakfactor.com. I will upload them here. I had seen a pack with two codes yesterday. E 627 and another one i forgot but it wan’t E 631. By the why you can comment on other articles also.
Dear Saady,
We would all appreciate if you can provide us the images. The debate however sounds bogus to me and completely out of sync.
For your kind information, and to add more proofs to my previous ones here is another one.Presented by Jamia Uloom Islamia Allama Binori Town has verified that Lay’s is free of all animal meat fat and contains only vegetable fat. The Jamia is of the view that Lay’s uses E 635 as an ingredient which is made from the combination of two ingredients E 631 and E 627. It has elaborated that the basic ingredient E631 is derived from vegetable fat. The Jamia has further explained that Lay’s purchase E 635 from its flavor house IFF. The ingredient is provided to IFF by a renowned company Ajinomoto based in Thailand.
Jamia Binoria has stated in its report that if the ingredient E 635 is derived from vegetable fat and that Lay’s purchase it from known sources then there are no chances of animal meat fat neither in the ingredient E635 or any other.
Hope that clears.
Well this all has been discussed in the article. the certificates are also provided in another post to clear all doubts but it is a twisted issue for sure.
Please read my opinion from
http://kashifiat.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/the-reality-of-lays-chips-controversy/
I found it almost same a part from the relation of JJ with Pepsi. Tapioca is itself flavor less but enhances the flavor of other spices very well when used in fractional quantity only and one can rely on Lays officials for the truth obviously we cant create facts on our own. So the choice is believe Lays or Ummat .
What are the reasons on which we should trust on Pepsi officials & why not we should believe on Ummat research. Any Logic?
What are the reasons on which we should trust on Ummat research & why not we should believe on Pepsi officials. Any Logic?
it could be a wild goose chase if the debate continues this way. It is A controversy exaggerated. Its personal choice to believe whom either Ummat or Pepsi. One can be optimistic or pessimistic. As per my duty I had brought the view of lays officials in lime light because everyone is emphasizing on the other part of the story more. I am personally in search of the hidden truth.
I have read what Ummat has published in 12 episode. They are continuously changing statements e.g. till 10 episode they mentioned that E 631 can not be obtained from plant but in 11th episode they agreed that it is from plant. Now they are chasing Junaid. Think we should trust Ummat?
Regards
@ Hina, osman: Very true folks. If people can’t trust Lay’s in spite of the fact that they have been providing with authentic proofs all this time, how can one be so sure of Ummat newspaper? They are simply playing on religious beliefs in fact exploiting their readers on the ground, exaggerating and coming up with every bogus detail they can in order to hide their shortcomings.
I remember the first day when Ummat ran a story on Lay’s chips on its op-ed pages and simultaneously ran the half page ad of Lay’s talking about its halal ingredient. It was ridiculous! Flowing in of money (through the ad) could not stop them from declining the offer against their ‘hard worked’ research…eh!
So you see, how can we trust such a publication who cannot agree on mutual actions and continue to deceive their readers?
Lay’s on the other hand has been on firm grounds since day 1 and has not, for a moment deviated from its path. Whom should we trust then?? Obviously Lay’s
Happy Lay’s eating!
[...] in Pakistan. The issue of using E631 flavor enhancer and pig fat has really declined the sales and image of Lays. It has become a favorite brand in no time when introduced in Pakistan. The recent addition to the [...]
[...] Lays chips, E631 and Pig fat Mystery Solved. Categories: General Comments (0) Trackbacks (0) Leave a comment [...]
its very imporatant topic for all muslims
lays are not halal……….
u can read these articles and then analyse who one is correct plz plz plz dont eat lays
lays is not a necessary thing for our survival its only the taste thats it
so first read following articles then do whatever u want…………….
http://www.ummatpublication.com/lays/abdullah_khan.html
http://www.ummatpublication.com/lays/saeed.html
http://www.mesmarty.com/2009/05/29/lays-chips-jamia-ashrafia-denied-of-lays-authenticity-being-halal
thank God i love this chips.
dear muslims
asalam u alaikum
i believe if anything goes doubtful then it is good to avoid it. chips are not essential stuff for human being for survival. so, wipe out this question from your life. it is not very essential type of thing and have alternatives, so try to focus on other major issues facing ummah.
nusrullah khan
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